There are rumors circulating that Tindie is selling a new improved 6 GHz NanoVNA.  What are the facts ?

We have just released the VNA6000, a 6GHz network analyzer with performance approaching professional instruments, more details here:
https://nanorfe.com/vna6000.html
The waitlist emails will be sent out slowly over a few weeks to months, so we can keep up with production.

On 8/23/22 9:54 AM, nanov2support wrote:
> We have just released the VNA6000, a 6GHz network analyzer with
> performance approaching professional instruments, more details here:
> https://nanorfe.com/vna6000.html <https://nanorfe.com/vna6000.html>
> The waitlist emails will be sent out slowly over a few weeks to months,
> so we can keep up with production.
> _._,_._,_

Nice looking piece of gear..


Your comparison against the field fox isn't quite up to date.. (and to
be fair, the FF is a $10k box)

The FF will go down to 30 kHz, not 2MHz as called out in your table.
(Spend more money and you can go down to 5kHz) the N995xA gets down to
300kHz.


The FF says 95 dB dynamic range for the N991Xa and N992Xb. (for 300 kHz
to 9GHz)
The N995xA is 100 dB dynamic range from 10 MHz to 20 GHz.

I'm not sure what you're defining as temp drift compensation, but the FF
is 0.018 mag and 0.1 degree phase both per degree C.

Probably the bigger difference is that the FF has more options for
stimulus power (so if you're measuring an amplifier, you can feed it -30
dBm and still get good S11 measurements) and the ability to tolerate
half a watt on either port without destruction. (maybe the V3 can do
that.. your sheet doesn't say)

Thanks, we will update the comparison table.

We were looking at the N9912A, as this one is at a closer price range - https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-01825/technical-overviews/5989-8618.pdf
I will update the site to clarify it is the N9912A that is being compared to. Thanks

On 8/23/22 10:32 AM, nanov2support wrote:
> We were looking at the N9912A, as this one is at a closer price range -
> https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-01825/technical-overviews/5989-8618.pdf
> <https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-01825/technical-overviews/5989-8618.pdf>
> I will update the site to clarify it is the N9912A that is being
> compared to. Thanks


yes
Ah.. yes, The spec sheet I sent is for the 9913 and onwards.


The 9912 is 72 dB dynamic range for S21 when measuring cable loss with
300 Hz IF BW, and 60 dB reflection.

$8k does seem to be the going price for the 9912A

The N9913A (30kHz -4 GHz, better performance) is around $13k (although
you can get a refurb unit for a mere $10k)

Jim, the introduction of the whole NANOVNA lineup puts a highly powerful
and useful instrument in the hands of the amateurs and "passouts and keeps"
for schools due to the price. Personally, I'm happy to see some
competition for the high-priced units from the Big Boys which are well
beyond the financial means of most of us. I'm fortunate to own the HP
8753C with the associated S-Parameter Test Set (which is anything but
portable!) and all the HP cal. standards. The NANOVNAs are also an
absolutely wonderful tool for learning about all things RF - far more so
than the (over priced) Rig Expert (which we may never see again as they are
made in the Ukraine) and MFJ units with marginal performance.

Yes, comparisons are good, but the data presented in those comparisons
should be correct. I believe the term is "trust but verify".

Dave - WØLEV

On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 6:58 PM Jim Lux <jimlux@earthlink.net> wrote:

> On 8/23/22 10:32 AM, nanov2support wrote:
> > We were looking at the N9912A, as this one is at a closer price range -
> >
> https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-01825/technical-overviews/5989-8618.pdf
> > <
> https://www.keysight.com/us/en/assets/7018-01825/technical-overviews/5989-8618.pdf
> >
> > I will update the site to clarify it is the N9912A that is being
> > compared to. Thanks
>
>
> yes
> Ah.. yes, The spec sheet I sent is for the 9913 and onwards.
>
>
> The 9912 is 72 dB dynamic range for S21 when measuring cable loss with
> 300 Hz IF BW, and 60 dB reflection.
>
> $8k does seem to be the going price for the 9912A
>
> The N9913A (30kHz -4 GHz, better performance) is around $13k (although
> you can get a refurb unit for a mere $10k)
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
*Dave - WØLEV*
*Just Let Darwin Work*

I think that the greatest disadvantage of such priced instrument (Nanovna or this Keysight) is is the need for exchange the DUT when measuring S22 and S12). In the new NanoVNA VNA6000 manual i read:
" Reflection (S11) and Transmission (S21). Reverse Reflection (S22) and Reverse Transmission (S12) with DUT reversal".
I do not see even the possibility to control the transfer relay to do it electronically, such as it was proposed here and applied in one of its control software.  SMA is not defined connector for any serious microwave measurement, and any disconnecting and connecting is a cause of an error and its wear.
OK1VAW, Vojtech.

On 8/23/22 12:42 PM, W0LEV wrote:
> Jim, the introduction of the whole NANOVNA lineup puts a highly powerful
> and useful instrument in the hands of the amateurs and "passouts and
> keeps" for schools due to the price.



University of Alberta used NanoVNAs in one of their classes done
entirely by "telework" - they sent a box to each student with all those
useful things like soldering iron, DMM and a NanoVNA.

Yes, and getting the top end up to 3-4 GHz helps a lot - there's a lot
of interest in ISM (WiFi, etc.) bands. One advantage from a "learn about
antennas" is that the wavelength is 12-13 cm, so it's in a nice sweet
spot where stuff is "hand sized" but not "need magnifying glasses and a
micrometer".


Personally, I'm happy to see some
> competition for the high-priced units from the Big Boys which are well
> beyond the financial means of most of us.  I'm fortunate to own the HP
> 8753C with the associated S-Parameter Test Set (which is anything but
> portable!) and all the HP cal. standards.  The NANOVNAs are also an
> absolutely wonderful tool for learning about all things RF - far more so
> than the (over priced) Rig Expert (which we may never see again as they
> are made in the Ukraine) and MFJ units with marginal performance.
>
> Yes, comparisons are good, but the data presented in those comparisons
> should be correct.  I believe the term is "trust but verify".
>

yes, I was surprised (because I was just looking up FieldFox performance
for something else recently). Fortunately, it was just "different model"
for the most part.

On 8/23/22 2:26 PM, OK1VAW wrote:
> I think that the greatest disadvantage of such priced instrument
> (Nanovna or this Keysight) is is the need for exchange the DUT when
> measuring S22 and S12). In the new NanoVNA VNA6000 manual i read:
> "Reflection (S11) and Transmission (S21). Reverse Reflection (S22) and
> Reverse Transmission (S12) with DUT reversal".
> I do not see even the possibility to control the transfer relay to do it
> electronically, such as it was proposed here and applied in one of its
> control software.  SMA is not defined connector for any serious
> microwave measurement, and any disconnecting and connecting is a cause
> of an error and its wear.
> OK1VAW, Vojtech.

For the Field Fox - I think that comes from its origins as a "handheld"
spectrum analyzer / cable tester.

For the NanoVNA - It's all about cost. When the instrument costs $50,
adding a multihundred dollar transfer switch is a big change. I'm
comparing new for new here.

It would be nice to have a "transfer switch control" output, and the
firmware to support it, but I think the problem you'd run into is "what
should the interface look like?". If one is contemplating surplus
transfer switches, they come in a wide variety of coil voltages and
currents, not to mention contact configurations. Running a 24VDC (most
common) relay from a battery powered 3.3V device is a chore.

There are two common relay arrangements in S-parameter test sets. One is
a DPDT transfer switch, the other is a combination of SPDT switches,
with bridges/couplers on both ports.


I think, in the long run, a good intermediate step would be to
promulgate a standard software interface to transfer switches and e-Cal
devices. Then the PC software (NanoQT, NanoVNA-Saver, etc) could run the
switch, leaving the NanoVNA to do its one-directional thing.

Something like ASCII strings over a (virtual) serial port would work
nicely. "FWD", "REV" for the transfer switch. "OPEN", "SHORT", "LOAD",
"THRU" for the e-cal. Ideally, a "fancy" switch, e-Cal, would be able
to return calibration parameters (offsets, reflection coefficient vs
freq, etc.) in a standard form. I've not looked at how the Keysight
eCal works, or the newer power meter heads, but there is a IEEE standard
for some of this.


As for SMA connectors and their life limits - that's what connector
savers (F-M adapter) are for.

You could always do a SMA-3.5mm if you want a "higher precision"
connector, although the SMA is pretty good. Mate it and stake it.

Probably the biggest problem with SMA is that they are produced by
thousands of companies at a lot of different quality and price points.
So, out of the billions of connectors out there, it's easier to get a
crummy one. When you're paying $100 each for precision connectors,
there aren't as many bad ones in the market place. And that gets back
to the instrument price point. It's hard to put "lab metrology" grade
connectors on a $100 instrument.

Very Interesting. I wish Santa Claus would exist, because I have already ver 2 plus.
But is there input protection in this version.