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Question about V2 PLUS4 I can't find answers to


barnc4br 2020/12/22 18:17

I am attempting to learn how to use my new V2.4 PLUS4 and I am running into a lot of missing information that may be helpful to me. I would very much appreciate it if anyone will fill in the blanks, ANY of the blanks.

1. What does RESET and RESET ALL do? What does each reset?

2. What is TRACKING?

3. What is DELTA?

4. Why would I want to set anything other than the default 201 sweep points?

5. What is CW under CFG SWEEP?

6. What is the effect of changing the WINDOW under TRANSFORM?

7. What does APPLY under CALIBRATE do? The only thing I found was it did the same thing as DONE.

8. What does ENHANCED RESPONSE under CALIBRATE do?

9. Which FORMAT(s) of trace does ELECTRICAL DELAY under SCALE apply to? and how is it actually used?

10. What is the ELECTRICAL DELAY range?

11. What is the range for SCALE/DIV?

John Cunliffe W7ZQ ( 2020/12/23 07:13

https://www.amazon.com/VNA-Applications-Handbook-Gregory-Bonaguide/dp/1630816000/ref=asc_df_1630816000/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=385577217796&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8611631841359618099&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005672&hvtargid=pla-833623208350&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=79288121195&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=385577217796&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8611631841359618099&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9005672&hvtargid=pla-833623208350

Vince Rooney 2020/12/23 08:33

This is a decent video on the NanoVNAs. It gets pretty technical for the uninitiated.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=f52LHhuOROM&fbclid=IwAR39qjWnTVYPjX-neTSlgBlnyLLJhsd8MJDFc8CvOZKDg91nGoT32Fsig7Q

barnc4br 2020/12/23 18:48

Are you kidding me? I paid $133. for this instrument and now I must pay $169. to find out the basics of using it.
Not going to happen.

I would like a USER MANUAL not a detail application text book.

The answers to my questions should be in a USER MANUAL.

I will say that while playing with it in an effort to write my own manual, I have answered 2, 3, 4, & partially 9 & 10. questions.
A few still allude me, like the 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, & 11

Dragan Milivojevic 2020/12/24 06:14

$169?

On Thu, 24 Dec 2020 at 03:49, <barnc4br@gmail.com> wrote:

David J Taylor 2020/12/24 09:23

On 24/12/2020 02:48, barnc4br@gmail.com wrote:
> Are you kidding me? I paid $133. for this instrument and now I must pay $169. to find out the basics of using it.
> Not going to happen.
>
> I would like a USER MANUAL not a detail application text book.
>
> The answers to my questions should be in a USER MANUAL.
>
> I will say that while playing with it in an effort to write my own manual, I have answered 2, 3, 4, & partially 9 & 10. questions.
> A few still allude me, like the 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, & 11

Perhaps take a look at the $3 version:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B083BB82G5

Cheers,
David
--
SatSignal Software - Quality software for you
Web: https://www.satsignal.eu
Email: david-taylor@blueyonder.co.uk
Twitter: @gm8arv

barnc4br 2020/12/24 06:30

That is the new retail price listed. Then there is tax. If you have a $30.000 unit I am sure it is worth it.

barnc4br 2020/12/24 06:37

thanks David. more my style.
I am amazed no one can tell me specifically what RESET and RESET ALL does.
That is pretty basic, don't ya think?

Be MERRY and stay safe.

barnc4br 2020/12/24 08:27

THANK YOU, that lead to a whole new treasure trove of information that will take me years to follow. IMHO, anyone with a VNA should be capable of handling any tech in that, in case anyone else is reading this.

Siegfried Jackstien 2020/12/24 13:16

. What does RESET and RESET ALL do? What does each reset?
reset resets calibration ... reset all also scan area (100 to 900 megs)

2. What is TRACKING?
marker tracks highest or loweat peak

3. What is DELTA?
set two markers and see difference of these two values

4. Why would I want to set anything other than the default 201 sweep points?
low number is higher speed (for coarse tuning)

5. What is CW under CFG SWEEP?
normally the signal on output is switched on and off (in off is switched to internl load ecal) .. if you want to use the device as signal generator that on off is not good ... in cw mode ecal is off and you the set start and szop to same value

6. What is the effect of changing the WINDOW under TRANSFORM? (still trying to figure that out guessing it is similar to rbw)

7. What does APPLY under CALIBRATE do? The only thing I found was it did the same thing as DONE.
apply switches on and off the calibration data

8. What does ENHANCED RESPONSE under CALIBRATE do?
show higher sensitivity then

9. Which FORMAT(s) of trace does ELECTRICAL DELAY under SCALE apply to? and how is it actually used?
delay is to add or substrakt a part of your measure coax (say a double female) to shift your reference plane
you know what reference plane means??

10. What is the ELECTRICAL DELAY range? ... no idea but you normally use short extensions and with the speed of light that will be very low numbers

11. What is the range for SCALE/DIV?
depends on what trace you change the scaling ...
it can be 5 .. or 10 or 20 db per square block (per division) for db values .. or if you measure a low loss filter or a cable also only 1 db per division (set that to your needs) ... that is for s11 return loss or for s21 trough loss
if trace shows swr then it can be 1 per division (default) ... or 0.5 (then swr 1:1.5 shows 3 steps up)
or it can be 0.1 per division (then a 1:1.3 would show 3 steps up and 1:1.5 shows 5 steps up)
etc etc (i will not list all here)

now a bit clear?!?

Jim Allyn - N7JA 2020/12/24 22:03

On Tue, Dec 22, 2020 at 06:17 PM, <barnc4br@gmail.com> wrote:

> 6. What is the effect of changing the WINDOW under TRANSFORM?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_function

Google is your friend. (Actually DuckDuckGo in my case.) So is Wikipedia.

Jim Allyn - N7JA 2020/12/24 22:11

On Wed, Dec 23, 2020 at 06:48 PM, <barnc4br@gmail.com> wrote:

> Are you kidding me? I paid $133. for this instrument

A bargain! The first network analyzer I used I talked management into paying about 50 grand for it. As I recall, it didn't come with much of a manual, either. But they did have workshops you could pay a few grand for to learn how to use it. Or you could spend hours reading and trying to understand their Application Notes, as I did. Those Application Notes are, for the most part, still available at the website of Keysight, formerly Agilent, formerly Hewlett Packard.

barnc4br 2020/12/27 06:47

JIM - THANK YOU - great explanation - I should read Wikipedia more since I support it.

barnc4br 2020/12/27 07:12

Siegfried Jackstien THANK YOU SIR. almost crystal clear ==> A couple follow ups
1. What does RESET and RESET ALL do? What does each reset?
reset resets calibration ... reset all also scan area (100 to 900 megs)
................................................... what does that mean?
My impression was reset all reset items to default. I just don't know what all those default items are. I have found some of them that changed. And RESET only clears the calibration data otherwise you would be calibrating the calibration.

6. Jim came up with it == https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Window_function
7. appears correct. done apparently turns it on. Not sure why one would want to turn it off.
8. it is just for viewability as the data does not change, right?
11. or 0.5 (then swr 1:1.5 shows 3 steps up) or it can be 0.1 per division (then a 1:1.3 would show 3 steps up and 1:1.5 shows 5 steps up) === shouldn't the first one be 1 step? Looks like the others measure level over 1?

Thanks again.

ok1vaw 2021/05/01 12:23

Point 5. - is not working on V2+4 with FW20201013. Although set to CW, output is still pulsing. Verified few minutes ago on spectrum analyzer. Somebody mentioned, that the error was corrected in retracted newer 20201122 FW.

DiSlord 2021/05/01 12:35

No V2Plus4 can`t fixed CW output by firmware change, it use custom code in bootloader
V2/V2plus allow CW output by this option

Reset - reset current calibration
Reset all - reset also and trace/marker/some others option to factory default

ok1vaw 2021/05/01 12:50

DiSlord, please look here:
https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2/topic/78765336#1734

I can add to you here a picture from SA, that the output in CW mode and paused sweep on my V2+4 is pulsing, no real continuous wave.
If I am doing anything wrong, please send detailed setting, what must be activated to get continuous wave, but STIMULUS -CW FREQ not working, STIMULUS CW FREQ +CFG SWEEP in any setting not working.

DiSlord 2021/05/01 16:02

I repeat again. On V2plus4 CW mode not avaible, and can`t add. This related to close code part, all measure code in bootloader, and not open for edit.

F1RVC 2021/05/02 15:48

Hi, did you read this? It is on the aliexpress nanorfe V2Plus4 webshop,
but I think it is also un every NanoVnaV2Plus4 shop:
[image: image.png]


Yes , I know now the V2_2 can do CW TXing, but on NanoVNAV2Plus4, there are
some locked access that does not permit to do the same upgrade on V2Plus4
like it has been done on the free design. This is only due to the nanoVnaV2
Plus 4 is not a free design and some feature access are locked inside the
bootloader
According to the firmware upgraders team....

Regards.

Patrice.




Le dim. 2 mai 2021 à 01:02, DiSlord <dislordlive@gmail.com> a écrit :

John Cunliffe W7ZQ 2021/05/02 07:23

A bargain! The first network analyzer I used I talked management into paying about 50 grand for it. As I recall, it didn't come with much of a manual, either. But they did have workshops you could pay a few grand for to learn how to use it. Or you could spend hours reading and trying to understand their Application Notes, as I did. Those Application Notes are, for the most part, still available at the website of Keysight, formerly Agilent, formerly Hewlett Packard.
Jim Allyn - N7JA wrote.
And really, if you think about it. in comparison to commercial test equipment this is a hobbyist toy. Very capable but still a toy. Or in Ham radio terms its equivalent to the difference between a 18000 Yaesu special edition and a rock mite kit. Seeing what a good steak dinner cost these days, this IS a bargain...and yet. people complain about the unit, they believe they bought a Ferrari with Ferrari performance instead a Volkswagen beetle. I look at some of the complaints and shake my head and also admire the patience of the hardware and software developers to put up with so much B.S.

Stephen Laurence 2021/05/02 07:32

And that is one of the reasons I do not want to get a V4.

The V2 is fine; I have four (an original for experimenting on, two V2N for real use and a Black and Gold, which I keep for the Japanise Obijan software (which can test crystals). Upgrade to a Librevna is unlikely as I find the 4” screen ok and immensely valuable so as to not have to lug a laptop in tow.

I can mod to a degree to get towards a V4 performance and one of my V2N devices is good to 4.ghz (port2 40db dynamic range at 4.4ghz, 80db below 2ghz) and will be fitted with esd protection soon. I also prefer the aesthetics and N connectors of the v2N and no problems connecting to win7/10 etc. Draping ferrite plates and ferrite cloth around the board and addition of various capacitors here and there help (see other’s and my posts on this).

Regardless of whether you have a V2 or V4, pairs of male and female N to sma adapters, (preferably not Chinese) and rated to at least 6ghz are useful. Not within this topic is the use of terminators eg such as made by Minicircuits and Radiall, rated at 12-18ghz available on Ebay as possible calibration standards.

Steve L

Stephen Laurence 2021/05/02 07:55

Dear John,

I totally agree. What I paid for each of my vna devices ( and the two tinysa) was less than it costs to fill my car with petrol.

The designers/ developers put up with a lot of sh*t from some people.

Actually, one of my v2N devices (slight modding plus luck) performs better than some of the boatanchors I am on the point of binning. I have three HP141 spectrum analysers. They must have cost at least £50k each in current money. OK they are spectrum analysers, not vnas, and one of them has a working 18ghz plugin, but.......... I suppose it is like comparing a 1930 Rolls Royce car with modern cheap runabout car. Both will get to 70mph in about the same comfort for the same number of occupants , but.......

Steve L

Siegfried Jackstien 2021/05/02 16:13

you need a smaller car hi hi

Am 02.05.2021 um 14:55 schrieb Stephen Laurence:

ok1vaw 2021/05/02 13:23

Unfortunately on Tindie, where I bought it there is nothing about CW mentioned:
https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/4-nanovna-v2-plus4/
I did not expect, that there would be only functional improvements from first V2s to V2+4, not any limitations. I have no problem to pay few bucks for this "unlocked" function to authors. I suppose that there are more users, which are missing this secondary functionality on the V2+4.
I remember maybe similar politics by professional equipment, when there were all hardware pre-built in the instrument (tracking generator etc), but the basic instrument could not use it. When buying some sort of license or key or similar the hw built in functionality was thereafter opened to the user.
Let us hope that the CW improvement will be added in some way to the top Nanovna model V2+4, which is a great instrument.

F1RVC 2021/05/03 14:35

Hi, sorry, but it is also on Tindie:
[image: image.png]
But I agree with you, I already requested it to the author group, but
unfortunately they did not have the time this is what they replied to
me.....
I know the hardware is protected , but the software is directly from the
free software, it should be free of access and not with a hidden locked
bootloader code....
I discovered it after the purchase....

On another hand the firmware was near perfect until the last one 2020
year, with the update on february, my display was flickered , requested
again, and a new up^graded version cam few days after with still but lower
flickering display, the last april 2021 firmware did not correct the still
flickering display problem, it look that some firmware lcd display
mangement must have been done due to bad display quality from the
provider, but this created a new display issue for those that did not
have problem before like , me. Unfortunately, it is a non official
firmware provided by Dislord
Regards.
Patrice.


Le dim. 2 mai 2021 à 22:23, ok1vaw <ok1vaw@volny.cz> a écrit :

ok1vaw 2021/05/04 14:21

Hello Patrice, you are really true, I have overseen it. Similar was mentioned with old V2s, but in the newer firmwares the CW function was added, or by Ojisan or other variants by other members of the group.
I am a great fan of Nanovna instruments. I have got the Nanovna V1, one of the first V2s and now V2+4. Concerning the requests for adding CW, if you look at my activity in the groups, I was one of the first, who was calling for such a function, as far as the instrument contains the necessary circuits, and it would be easy (or a software thing) to make it available.
I am a microwave engineer with more than 20years praxis in the development and I admire with all knowledge, what is behind, what the instrument can do for such a low price.
If the development of V2+4 will not allow it in the future, it will not be a greater problem to possess both of the instruments. As somebody said here, the price equals a full tank of petrol and this is a thing, which most of all can afford.
I am the last person who will put a sh*** on the designers. On the contrary I am active adn try to use all my knowledge and help in the Facebook NanoVNA V2 Group, which I have founded just when the V2 was available.
BR, success to all
and 73s,
OK1VAW, Vojtech.

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