Current versions have been available for some years now. Is the development stopped or is something coming.

I’m guessing that we’ve sort of hit a wall on inexpensive parts and simple
design.

Stepping up an octave (e.g. say, up to 8-10 GHz) pushes you to needing
different substrates and design techniques, and it’s a lot harder to get the
performance.

Cal kits are harder to make. Mixers and similar RF components have a sort of
breakpoint around 4 GHz and another one around 6-7 GHz (just above 5.8 GHz
ISM)



There’s also perhaps not as much demand. There’s plenty of demand for devices
that can cover 2.4 GHz ISM and 3 GHz WiMax kind of things. Maybe not so much
for the 5.8 GHz ISM, and very little in between, or above.









> On Feb 18, 2024, at 9:33 PM, Leif M <leif.michaelsson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>

> Current versions have been available for some years now. Is the development
stopped or is something coming.

_._,_._,_

* * *

when esa launches their new sat one may need 5.8 gig (or higher??) bands
for uplink

so sad they do not just use 13cm up (similar to qo100) cause for that we
have the hardware

dg9bfc sigi

Am 19.02.2024 um 20:20 schrieb Jim Lux:

> I’m guessing that we’ve sort of hit a wall on inexpensive parts and
> simple design.
> Stepping up an octave (e.g. say, up to 8-10 GHz) pushes you to needing
> different substrates and design techniques, and it’s a lot harder to
> get the performance.
> Cal kits are harder to make. Mixers and similar RF components have a
> sort of breakpoint around 4 GHz and another one around 6-7 GHz (just
> above 5.8 GHz ISM)
>
> There’s also perhaps not as much demand.  There’s plenty of demand for
> devices that can cover 2.4 GHz ISM and 3 GHz WiMax kind of things.
>  Maybe not so much for the 5.8 GHz ISM, and very little in between, or
> above.
>
>
>
>
>> On Feb 18, 2024, at 9:33 PM, Leif M <leif.michaelsson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Current versions have been available for some years now. Is the
>> development stopped or is something coming.
>

I agree. NanoVna designers have done a good work with current versions, but today they could probably find some things to improve. I don't know enough of VNA technology in  general, but products can, and should, always be improved.  Perhaps calibration methods, larger firmware size, full S-parameter measuring and of course price could be better. And of course some ESD protection.
What about 5GHz Wlan,  is it at 5GHz?.

I am  quite satisfied with my NanoVNA,  I could measure a 10nH "coil" for a matching circuit, I have very little to complain.

Interesting Jim. Fascinating actually... let me know if anyone knows how I can get the Nano VNA H4 todisplay / work with my p.c.

Bill
-------- Original message --------
From: Jim Lux <jimlux@earthlink.net>
Date: 2/20/24 1:46 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: NanoVNAV2@groups.io
Subject: Re: [nanovnav2] Any new HW version coming?

I’m guessing that we’ve sort of hit a wall on inexpensive parts and simple design.
Stepping up an octave (e.g. say, up to 8-10 GHz) pushes you to needing different substrates and design techniques, and it’s a lot harder to get the performance.
Cal kits are harder to make. Mixers and similar RF components have a sort of breakpoint around 4 GHz and another one around 6-7 GHz (just above 5.8 GHz ISM)

There’s also perhaps not as much demand. There’s plenty of demand for devices that can cover 2.4 GHz ISM and 3 GHz WiMax kind of things. Maybe not so much for the 5.8 GHz ISM, and very little in between, or above.




On Feb 18, 2024, at 9:33 PM, Leif M <leif.michaelsson@gmail.com> wrote:

Current versions have been available for some years now. Is the development stopped or is something coming.

Hi, we have recently introduced the VNA6000 series, expanding the maximum dynamic range to *110dB at 5.8GHz* : https://nanorfe.com/vna6000.html
You can buy it here: https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/nanorfe-vna6000/
Thanks

Analog Devices has a VNA front end chip that works to 20GHz:
https://www.analog.com/en/products/adl5960.html
It includes internal multipliers to allow it to work to 20GHz with a 6GHz synthesizer.
It is not a cheap chip, and two would probably be needed for a two port VNA.
I suspect a full two port VNA using such chips but costing under $1000 would sell well.
--John Gord

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 09:33 PM, Leif M wrote:

>
> Current versions have been available for some years now. Is the
> development stopped or is something coming.

Digikey sells those at 117-160€£$

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 06:33 PM, nanov2support wrote:

>
> Hi, we have recently introduced the VNA6000 series, expanding the maximum
> dynamic range to *110dB at 5.8GHz* : https://nanorfe.com/vna6000.html
> You can buy it here: https://www.tindie.com/products/hcxqsgroup/nanorfe-vna6000/
>
> Thanks

That is probably the next version, if I ever upgrade my VNA. Is it a recent model? I have seen it before.

On Tue, Feb 20, 2024 at 06:32 PM, Bill Endres wrote:

>
> let me know if anyone knows how I can get the Nano VNA H4 todisplay / work
> with my p.c.

There are at least a couple control SW for NanoVNA. https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV2 There are sometimes problems with them, but in the end they work.
PC software for NanoVNAs is not very professional or polished. And an other low cost VNA has more tools for their VNA, so that could be better. It also costs more.

That's more of a question for the NanoVNA list, rather than the NanoVNA V2 list. I'm pretty sure that people on the other list have done it.

See also https://groups.io/g/NanoVNAV3

goes to 6 GHz.

Fascinating.. $150

The usual rule of thumb is that "box price" is 5x - 10x Bill of Materials price.

So you're probably talking about a several thousand dollar box, which is still quite reasonable. But at that price point, you're really selling to people who's *job* is using the VNA (as opposed to casual experimenters). If you're paying an RF engineer 100k/yr, then the whole "what's a reasonable price" trade starts to change - they're going to want fairly robust user interfaces (e.g. like Keysight and Anritsu have), e-cal, the ability to insert amplifiers and attenuators "inside the loop", have DC bias, and so forth. Because at $100/hr, time is money.

A Keysight FieldFox that goes to 18 GHz is about $30k, and you can rent one for about $2-3k/month.

So you might sell some to an R&amp;D lab for experimentation, but, I'm not sure how big the market is for that.

S-band spectrum is *very* tight. It was a real chore to get allocations for the SunRISE mission (uplink on S, downlink on X).

Even X-band is fairly tight, although the beamwidth of even a small ground station is small enough that conflicts are less likely.

https://www.ntia.doc.gov/files/ntia/publications/2003-allochrt.pdf

There's a fair amount of bandwidth for Fixed Satellite Earth to Space starting at 5.8 up to about 7.

Of course, Earth to Space X-band starts around 7.19

Jump up to Ku (13GHz up), K (17 GHz up) , or Ka (27 G and above) and there's lots of room.

I've looked at the data sheet in more detail.
You'd still need a 20 GHz synthesizer for the test source. The chip has the ability to use a more limited range source for the receiver LO, or, even more clever, it can use the RF source as the LO, with a "zero-offset" mode.

Clearly, this part is designed to work with some fast multichannel ADCs, so you use an IF of a few MHz (as opposed to 5 kHz in the NanoVNA). But that's not a big deal today.

And some RF switches.

It doesn't say what the ESD sensitivity is (it just says ESD Caution)

Eval board is $990 with the Linduino board. You'd need ADCs and a synthesizer eval to go with it. There's an octal 65 MSPS 14 bit converter (AD9257) that might work ($367), or better yet, a 14 bit, 80 MSPS quad (LTM2173-14) for about $100. Maybe one of those cool parts intended for an ultrasound - 8 channels, built in digital demodulator, so you could get I/Q out directly without having to do it in DSP.


I think, though, that $1000 is pretty sporty.

On Wed, Feb 21, 2024 at 07:49 AM, Jim Lux wrote:

>
> I think, though, that $1000 is pretty sporty.

You are probably right. unfortunately. AD has severals chips which can give more than 20GHz, but they are not cheap. Like ADF41513BCPZ

More is not necessarily better!

"If more is better, too much must be incredible."

Freq response, bandwidth, and accurate measurement are often a case of pick
two.

Still chips reduce the number of headaches in maintaining good signal hygiene.

Cheers,
Phil

--
VE4STG
"Behind the times, but ahead of the game."
--Becky Mendelsohn

Sure.  I  just hope that there will be new versions of NanoVNA. There is always something to improve, even if you are a market leader.

TL;DR: I experiment with SDR technology- not as a job, but as a "hobby'ist"- I believe there to be a growing group of like minded individuals and growing/ becoming more popular. The SDRs/ devices that have become accessible offer the abillity to 'research' vast sections of the spectrum- because of this, the importance of antenna has become very important- this is where a VNA become an invaluable tool- but, a buying sticking point is the accessibility to a VNA that offers such a broad range, but also at a price point more inline with the hobby'ist demographic. Though, the current offerring is a good value as it is, it's still just above the threshold many are able to afford- give us a product that can do a wider range for our SDR experimentation at a price point around $150 and I guarantee you will have many jumping at owning 1- myself included.

(yeah yeah- I pretty much wrote the same amount but i tried....)

As a "hobby'ist" toying with SDR tom-foolery being the HackRF(now have 2...). with eyes on 'better' ../ I believe there to be a growing, demographic of like minded individuals that is percolating to the surface. Could just be me having to find intrest in this area' but I am finding more and more takin interest in radio and SDR...  is noticeable on sites like youtube and the plethora of hacking sites...not to mention having 'certain' 'devices' in mainstream media sparking other interests in the signals all around us....

Not for work' but as a hobby...something to learn' occupy the days- I find myself dabling all over the spectrum(obviously no TXingg ;))... with that' learning the importance of proper antenna....well.... is important....I strongly believe a device/ tool such as a VNA is critical, crucial, a necessity- to ge te most out of the hobby- 9i'm trying to think of an analogy of what navigating a nice SDR is without knowing or using bad antennas...maybbe something on the lines of  having a high octane competition dragster but filling it with economy gas from the pump)

I need to--- am required...must...have to get a VNA. Heck, you can't beat this price point for the offering.

Where I get stuck up on....and I strongly believe- with my statement that many more are getting into SDRs, that others fall into the same boat- since 1 day i may be looking at subGHZ, another day WIFI, another ADSB..I am looking for a good valued device upto 5hzG or to cover all WIFI- give me a device like this under $200cad($150cad would be ideal wink wink)...and no questions asked    you have a customer- i guarantee that there are large number of folk in the same space as me.

Nothing fancy- just something that can profile antennas within our SDR's capabilities.

And you hit the target – hobbyist.

And so all of the fiddling around, firmware updating and calibrating for these purposes are a waste of idle time.

>From the Mini 1300 to my latest VNA, all worked well right out of the box and good enough for Government work at the level most of us require.

Joseph D. Yuna
Joseph D. Yuna (LCDR USN/ret.)
1006 River Hills Rd.
Beavercreek, OH 45430-1124
United States of America
Primary: +617.943.2635
<mailto:W4JDY1953@gmail.com> W4JDY1953@gmail.com

for vhf uhf and higher the Pluto is a good sdr (but it's not an analyzer... it's an sdr frontend)
it can be used for a handful of things with the software satsagen (spectrum analyzer with tracking generator)